How can I live without floating selvedges?

was a question on a forum last week.

Easily, is the fastest answer. I had been weaving for 20+ years before I even heard about such animals... (and I confess: have not tried FS, not even once, since I heard about them. And, since it is confession time: once in a while I have been known to make an extra turn around the outer end - but I had done that for the 20+ years of weaving before I heard about FS, so I don't know if that counts)

So, how?

Here are some answers:
1. see what happens. IF an end doesn't get caught, ignore it.
2. IF an end doesn't get caught, and it annoys me (probably not, but anyway) - try starting the weft from the other side.
3. think about them before weaving (see below)

The thinking gets easier with written-out structure (binding) diagrams.

Like this: let us assume a 2/2 twill, thus 4 shafts. There are four possible permutations for the tie-up(s). Likewise, there are two possible ways (directions) for threading (/// or \\\). For treadlings there are, again, four possibilities: /// and \\\, but also if we treadle from the top down ("American way") or from the bottom up ("Swedish way").

Here goes: first diagram. The colours in the wefts are put there to distinguish between right-to-left and left-to-right (in reality they are the same colour, as this is a single-shuttle weave)

Going clockwise from upper right: treadling from top to bottom, from right to left (means the red wefts go from right to left): both outer ends get caught. Treadling from bottom to top (means the yellow wefts go from right to left): both outer ends get caught.
However: if one shifts the shuttling direction, both outer ends become un-bound.

Next quadrant (bottom right): exactly the same applies - shuttling from right to left both outer ends get caught. If switching shuttling direction, both outer ends get not-caught.

The two left-hand quadrants work the opposite: if shuttling from right to left, both outer ends get un-caught - reversing the shuttling direction lets the outer ends get caught.
(As I always want to start from the right, I crossed out the two left-hand quadrants)

Diagram 2 - the tie-up is shifted one step up.
As I always want to start from the right, I crossed out the two right-hand quadrants because the outer ends will be un-caught.

Diagram 3 - the tie-up shifted yet one step up.
As I always want to start from the right... the two left-hand quadrants are crossed out.

Diagram 4 - the last permutation in the tie-up.
As I always (etc)... the two right-hand quadrants are crossed out.

Of course, all of the crossed-out quadrants can be fixed by either:
- starting the shuttling from left to right
- OR (still shuttling my fave direction) by adding or subtracting one end each side.


OK, I hear you: BUT what about a more complicated binding (structure)?

This is a random structure that I found on handweaving.net:

As I always prefer to start from the right, AND (being Swedish) read the treadling from the bottom up: here the turquoise picks go from right to left.
With this threading, tie-up and treadlings there will be some un-caught outer ends. If I haven't made a mistake (or two...) the longest selvedge float will be seven picks.

Is seven picks too much?

Well - for a, say, rug (or other coarse weave): yes, definitely.
But for something woven at some 30-40-50 ends/picks per inch? Being metric, I don't much care for "inching", but a free end at the selvedge being 1/2 to 3/4 of a centimetre is nothing much to me.
(It, of course, also depends on the end use of the cloth: if it is to be cut and sewn, the selvedges do not matter at all (coarse cloth or not).)

So, adding to the three "answers" above:
1. see what happens. IF an end doesn't get caught, ignore it.
2. IF an end doesn't get caught, and it annoys me (probably not, but anyway) - try starting the weft from the other side.
3. think about them before weaving (see above)
4. what is the fabric meant to be used for? IF for cutting and sewing, then selvedges usually are of no importance
5. what are the actual lengths of the "free" selvedge threads? Is it likely to catch?
6. (if I am hand-throwing: maybe catch the selvedge "manually" now and again - at the "points" of the top treadling)

This, my friends, is how I live without floating selvedges!

(Re point treadlings, see this post , which mainly is about making a "clean cut" when changing treadling direction.)

On adding borders

There was a question over at Weavolution about
adding plain weave borders to a waffle weave.

As the asker had 4 empty shafts on her loom, I started doodling about other possible borders.

To take it form the beginning – here is one possible 4-shaft waffle draft:

It uses five treadles, according to most(?) books/practices – which, had the loom been a "standard Swedish", would leave three treadles unused.

Adding 8 ends at each edge, we can easily get plain weave:

This only works because waffle with five treadles is treadled to a point - with straight treadling we would get two picks in the same shed every time we go from treadle 5 to treadle 1:

But... the reason I added the ends to all four empty shafts is that plain weave is not the best companion to waffle weave , because of the difference in draw-in/shrinkage.
So what about adding a twill border instead?

As usual, when treadling to a point, the outermost ends will not get caught when treadling in one direction, but the edge floats will not be very long , so in my opinion this will work in most instances.

So... could I find a nice "hem" (or, rather, "border" – at least in Swedish, a border (bård) goes crosswise, while something that goes along the warp is a "stripe" ("rand"))

This requires four more treadles, which would be a problem for the "standard Swdish" loom. As I understand it, US looms always (?) have two extra treadles.

Note that I changed threading direction at the left edge, to make the twill line match (actually "oppose") the line at the right corner.

As usual, all pictures get bigger when clicked.

Another solution / en annan lösning

Laura's soultion is the right-hand one (right, Laura?) - slightly different look, but sooo much easier...
(why didn't *I* think of that??? ;-)

En annan lösning, från Laura (till höger ovan). Lite annorlunda ser den ut, men bara lite ;-)
(Varför kom inte *jag* på den...?)

Att "fånga" staden

Men, säger någon, kan man inte fixa till de lösa trådarna på nåt sätt?

Jo, alltså - man kan ju andvända två skyttlar.
Eller (som Anne föreslog borta hos Anki - man kan ta av tråden i varje vändning, för att börja om från andra sidan.
Eller (som Annes syfröken föreslog), man kan sy till kanterna för hand efteråt.

I Amerika är det populät med en annan metod: "flytande stad" (floating selvage). Det innebär att man låter den yttersta tråden vara osolvad, och istället tricksar med skytteln så att varje inslag går "in över, ut under". (Tvärtom går förstås också bra.)
Det fungerar förstås, men är så pyssligt att ingen (jag menar mig själv, förstås) orkar hålla på med det i metervis...

Om man har 6 skaft kan man solva de yttersta trådarna på de extra skaften:

Man skulle ju kunna solva fler trådar i tuskaft - eller kan man det?
Jag vill påstå att det inte är lämpligt, eftersom tuskaft är en tätare bunden väv. Det betyder att tuskaftskanterna lätt "bygger" mer än kyperten, man får spänningsproblem osv.


So, how to catch the edge?

Well, as we have seen, one can use two shuttles.
Or (as Anne wrote over at Anki's - cut the weft at every change of direction, start anew from the other side.
Or (as Anne's sewing teacher suggested) - one can hand sew over each un-caught portion of the ... yardage... afterwards.

In the US it is popular to use a "floating selvage", which means that the outer threads are left unthreaded, and instead manipulate them for each shuttle pass: "in over, out under". (The opposite will work too, of course.)
That is way too fiddly for me.

If you have 6 shafts you can use the two extra shafts for the edge threads.

But - then you can thread a wider selvage, can't you?
IMO that is not a good idea. As tabby is a tighter weave than is twill, it is easy to get a too "long" selvage - it will build faster. You can also get tension problems.

Kypert och lösa stadtrådar, del 2

Blir dethär bättre?

(Klicka för större bild!)

Om vi räknar inslagen nedifrån:
det första kommer från vänster; kommer ut ÖVER stadtråden.
Sedan går det från höger, och det går in ÖVER stadråden (ut resp in orangemarkerade).
Stadtråden blir inte bunden.

Tredje inslaget kommer från vänster, och kommer ut UNDER stadtråden.
Fjärde inslaget går från höger, går in UNDER stadtråden (andra orangea pilen).
Stadtråden blir inte bunden - nu ligger den fri för 4 inslag.

Femte inslaget (från vänster), kommer ut ÖVER staden.
Sjätte från höger, går in ÖVER stadtråden, som nu ligger fri över 6 inslag.

Sjunde inslaget (efter trampvändningen; fjärde krok-pilen) från vänster: ut ÖVER staden.
Åttonde från höger går nu in UNDER staden - staden binds.

Nionde från vänster; ut UNDER staden.
Tionde från höger: in ÖVER staden, som binds.


A more detailed description of how to understand yesterday's picture.

The wefts are (in the Swedish tradition) counted fron the bottom - in fact, as they are entered on the physical loom... :-)

The first pic is coming fron the left, comes out OVER the edge thread.
Second pic goes from the right, and enters the shed OVER the edge thread (both picks marked in orage)
The edge thread is not caught by the weft.

Third pick from left, exits shed UNDER the edge thread.
Fourth pick enters shed from the right, UNDER edge thread.
Edge thread is not caught, and is therefore free for 4 picks.

Fifth pick comes from left, exits OVER edge.
Sixth pick from right, enters OVER edge. Now the edge thread is un-caught for 6 picks.

Seventh pick (after the change of treadling direction, 4th crooked arrow) from left: comes out OVER the edge thread.
Eighth pic now enters shed from right, UNDER edge thread, which is thereby caught.

Ninth, from left: out UNDER edge.
Tenth, from right: in OVER edge, which is again caught.

Kypert och lösa stadtrådar

Till Anki:
såhär kan man (relativt) enkelt ta reda på om/hur stadtråden fungerar med en skyttel (de orangea pilarna), eller med två skyttlar (de röda och gröna pilarna).
(Klicka på bilden, så blir den större)

Alltså - med en skyttel går det bra OM man tar av tråden och börjar från andra sidan i tramp-vändningen.

Med två skyttlar fungerar båda trampriktningarna utan problem (utom att man måste hålla rätt på skyttlarna, förståss...)

This is esentially a comment to Anki.

This is one method of figuring out if/how a twill selvage will work out.
The orange arrows are for one shuttle - there will be a warp loop for half the goose eye unless you cut the weft and start from the other side at the change of treadling direction.
OR you can use two shuttles (the red and green arrows) - with two shuttles the edge threads will be caught (nearly) always.
(Click the picture to make it bigger).