Double damask?

Last year, when Laura and I were in Macclesfield, England, we saw a small piece of cloth described as "double-sided damask", also said to be "the same technique as used for cloth of gold". I had never heard of "double-sided damask" - to my mind, the nature of damask is to be double-sided. Jean gave me a tip: Murphy's "A Treatise on the Art of Weaving" (1824), but it is too complicated for me to understand. (Yes, I *have* tried several times :-) So I just dropped the problem, after all we have all seen strange labels in museums, yes?

However, yesterday someone posted a link to an article in NYT (or something), I went on from there and landed on the site of Thomas Ferguson Irish Linen - and they have a definition of "double damask" (link goes to the definition of "ordinary" damask, but both come up on the same screen).

I'm copying some of the text, and want discussion:

Linen damask is a figured fabric made from one warp and one weft in which, generally, warp-satin and weft-sateen weaves interchange. Twill or binding weaves are sometimes introduced.

I have no problems with this - sounds like "ordinary" damask, which incidentally is double-sided, or maybe I mean reversible.

But:

What is the difference between Linen Damask and Linen Double Damask?

Double damask is different from ordinary damask in that it has a lower warp thread count than weft thread count; this allows a dense high thread count fabric to be produced, as the weft yarns are beat up tight in the fabric. However, it is a much more expensive way of weaving because it takes longer to weave a given length of fabric. Also, to allow this dense packing of yarn a looser twill weave is used than in ordinary damask.

(there is some more text, but this will have to do for now. You can always use the link above)

So: ordinary damask is a warp-faced structure contrasted with the same structure, only weft-face, regardless of "thread count" or "balance" (same # of ends and picks) - but double damask is UN-balanced? And therefore better, because it has more picks than ends? And it is (always?) woven in twill? Because twill is a "looser weave" than satin? Huh?

Further down, they mention that they use finer yarns for the double damask, which gives better pattern definition. I am OK with that, of course finer yarn give better definition, but...

Another quote:

As stated earlier, to allow the dense packing of yarn, a looser twill weave is used when weaving double damask than in ordinary damask. This requires a high thread count to stabilise the fabric. With a low thread count this was not the case.
These poorly made fabrics were sub standard, and normal damask was in many instances a better buy. This forced the hand of the Irish Linen Guild and they brought in a minimum thread count for double damask.

(Unfortunately, the Irish Linen Guild does not tell what kind of counts they used for their definitions - at least I can't find them.)

Conclusion: still confused, perhaps more than before (when I could still blame the museum label).

Or: can it be another of these different culture, different language things again?
I sometimes discuss fabrics with my neighbour, the cloth merchant: he is a textile engineer, trained in industry. We can usually (but not always) agree on plain weave, but in industry there are (apparently) so many more parameters in industry a "trade name". (Edit to make sense!)
Sometimes they (he) use a structure name when they mean to include a lot more information: fibre content, weight...
And sometimes they use a structure name for something quite different: "cord" comes to mind. At least here I Sweden a "cord" in a fabric shop is what we weavers usually call "corduroy".
In the UK, a "corded silk" (at least in conjunction with academic dress) is typically a warp rep, very seldom woven of silk. (Yes, I have analysed a piece, and burnt it.)

Speaking of linens

Look what I found in a local, um, curiosity shop (she would be offended if I called it a flea market - ):

The printing says, from left to right: (logo) pillowcase material (with a rather odd spelling: örngåttsväf When was it spelled "örngått"?); shrunk; linen finish (what is that? Calendered?); 28 metres; free from sizing. (I should mention that it is cotton.)

The "bale" now held 12 metres, according to the label. Even with a very nice hand, what could I do with 12 metres of pillowcase material (this means it is 62 cm wide - or 62 c/m, as the print says)? So I let it stay at the shop...
Because of that, I can't give you a thread count - but I doubt it is less than 40/cm. On the other hand, it is machine-spun.

Come to think of it - how many textile-y "everyday" words are there that are mis-used? Bed linens became cottons many years ago, but are still called linens. A friend of mine (a weaving teacher) says it is quite ok, that it is in fact standard in industrial parlance, to use the word "silk" for any very long fibre - extruded viscose, for instance. (Like "silk velvet")

Fantastic fabrics

I came across a link the other day, to a book is called Textiles and clothing, by Kate Heintz Watson, published in Chicago 1907.

Here is the link to the fabric names section .

Some names that caught my eye:
Buckskin—A stout doe skin with a more defined twill. (oh yeah – a stout doe is the same as a buck, then?)
(OK, so doeskin appears, too: Doeskin—A compact twilled woolen, soft and pliable.
However, in this listing I could not find swansdown, which I’m sure I’ve seen somewhere else.)

Farmer Satin—A lining of cotton chain or warp and wool filling, finished with a high lustre, also called Italian cloth.

Kerseymere—A fine, twilled, woolen cloth of peculiar texture, one thread of warp and two of wool being always above. Hmm – "one thread of warp and two of wool"? Could it be ta scanner trick, perhaps – "one of warp and two fo woof"? Anyway, I like the "peculiar"...

Prunella—Lasting cloth. Lasting as in long-lasting/hard-wearing? I thought I had read about "lasting" as a quality, but if so, it has hid somewhere in the bookshelf.

What I have woven today? I wish I could have said "crash" ('cos it sounds fun), but alas, today’s "fanning" was all cotton...

Crash—A strong, course linen cloth of different widths, used for towels, suits, table linen, hangings, bed spreads; in fact, there is no end to the uses to which this textile can be adapted.

Summing up

What have we done, then?

We have: visited several historical textile sites, some with working machinery, none of them "in production". (Cromford mill, Masson mill, Paradise mill, the knitting factory of Johnston’s of Elgin (in Hawick), Quarry Bank Mill – maybe I have forgotten some places…
We have: met with several weavers, Belinda, Sam, Ashleigh (and several others, who may also have websites - sorry), Cally, Andrew, Stacey.
We have: been to Handweaver’s studio, the Fashion museum and the V&A.
We have: bought some yarn (and I have bought some fabric)

And I have heard a new-to-me weave structure name: double-sided damask (said to be "the same technique as used for cloth of gold"). The museum ppl (at the silk museum in Macclesfield) did not know how that differed from ordinary damask, and only one side was displayed. The 'net is of no particular help – most of what I find just states that cloth of gold is cloth made from gold. Well - . (This article (on page 8 ff) from Complex weavers is interesting, but does not help with the "double-sided" question)
So: does anybody know about "double-sided damask", and how it differs from "ordinary" damask?

(Another draper)

Cat tracks

London: fibres, fabrics and...

fancy dress (NO! But how to allitterate? F...f... fanatics? no, that's even worse... ah: 'ficionados, that will do it!)
So: London: fibres, fabrics and 'ficionados.

Fibres: for the first time, I visited Handweaver's studio, a place full of fibres

"ordinary" yarns, more unusual yarns

glitter yarns

There are also spinning tools, looms, books, magazines... However, having baggage restrictions, I didn't buy much.

Fabrics: there is a small stretch of road having more fabric shops than anywhere else I have ever seen, on Goldhawk road (between Shepherd's bush market and the common). Silks, silks, silks, worsteds, fancy fabrics, fashion fabrics... Did I mention silks? (To make it even better, there is also a pub called The stinging nettle - not quite fibres, but almost...)

As this whole block is threatened with demolition, here are many pictures:

(Should you happen to pass by in the near future, please go in and sign the petition!!!)

'ficionados: as my specific reason for going to London was the Congregation of the Burgon Society, here are a couple of pictures:

Hålkrus?

Evelyn posted a question over at Weavolution. She asked how to treadle pattern no 44 (Hålkrus) in Vävbok by Hulda Peters.

The book in question is but one of many - in the early 1900s there were several small books containing "simple" (or perhaps "traditional"?) weaving patterns. They were often thin pamphlets (the Peters book is, in fact, unusually thick - all of 96 pages), often claiming they are describing "local" weaves.
This, I suspect, was the time when Daldräll ("overshot") was associated with Dalarna, when Jämtlandsdräll became "typical" of Jämtland, when Gagnefkrus was attributed to Gagnef, Östgötadräll to Östergötland, Rovadräll to Rova... and Smålandsväv to Småland.

Peters is, at the time, manager of the local Craft society shop in Skara. She is quite unique in that not one of her threadings has a geographical name.
She is also unique in that she does not give any treadlings... The detailed threadings are there, the tie-ups are there, and occasionally she gives some off-hand treadling instruction ("treadled back-and-forth").

The hålkrus, #44, has the threding and the tie-up. It also has a picture - (click to biggify):

As hålkrus usually has well-defined "holes", it is easy to doubt the name. Or, at least, to be confused...

(This picture from the book Varp och inslag, ISBN 91-27-35226-9.)

As I don't like to be confused, I did some research. It resulted in a new article on my web site - read it here.

I also wanted to know what you called it in English, I tried googling.
At handweaving.net I found an excerpt from Master weaver from 1954, titled "Hålkrus, or Gagnefkrus, or Spetsväv, or Lacey Weave, or Honeycomb". It says: " Strangely enough this weave with so many names, has none in English. In colonial times it has been called Honey Comb. Since then however the industrial weaving adopted Honeycomb as a synonym of Waffle. So if we want to call Hålkrus by the name of honeycomb, we must add Colonial, or nobody will know what we are talking about."
So, I googled honeycomb +weave - and, sure enough - most hits I got depicted what I would call waffle - this (scroll down a bit), and this - in fact, there are several waffles on this site, all labelled honeycomb.

Conclusion: the more you know, the more you know that you don't know...

(Please, can I have all possible names for the technique? Don't mind the language!)

The naming of names

"I am a draper mad with love. I love you more than all
the flannelette and calico, candlewick, dimity, crash
and merino, tussore, cretonne, crepon, muslin,
poplin, ticking and twill in the whole Cloth Hall of
the world [...] "
(from Under Milkwood, Dylan Thomas 1954)

I can add some myself, off the top of my head: duroy, stuff, fustian, genoa, thickset, roundtop, gabardine ... and tweed.

All of them "weave names", all of them... confusing (at least to me, the foreigner).

Janet wrote, à propos my jackets , that they were both classical tweeds.

Of late, again I have had occasion to get confused about cloth naming. Remember the corduroy ?
There is that very Swedish (or at least "swedishified", I thought) word korderoj. I've known it (as a word - unfortunately not as a cloth quality) all my life. When I met corduroy as a cloth quality (or structure), and knew it for what we (Swedes) nowadays call Manchester velvet, I assumed that korderoj was the older Swedish word for, well, corduroy.

It turns out I was wrong.

All available (old and new) Swedish reference books claim that korderoj is not "what the English call corduroy", but instead is a "simple" (or maybe "cheap"), coarse (often striped) fabric for men's suiting.

To make things worse, "corduroy" is not derived from French - instead it is believed it comes from "cord" + "duroy". Duroy is a fabric name - meaning either "A lightweight WORSTED, akin to SERGE and TAMMY, and not the same as CORDUROY" or "duroy: coarse woollen" . (which, incidentally, ties it with Korderoj... perhaps).

Well, back to tweed. Janet, I'm glad you call them tweed jackets - it's what I called them myself. Until...

This is how Wikipedia defines it:
"Tweed is a rough, unfinished woollen fabric, of a soft, open, flexible texture resembling cheviot or homespun, but more closely woven. It is made in either plain or twill weave and may have a check or herringbone  pattern. Subdued, interesting colour effects (heather mixtures) are obtained by twisting together differently coloured woolen strands into a two- or three-ply yarn."

Also, there used to be a yarn called "tweed yarn", a singles, fairly coarse, with nubs in contrasting colours. The yarn itself was dark, grey, dark blue, dark green etc.

And, I think I remember having read some old English literature - Woodehouse, perhaps? - about tweed being "thornproof" and not showing mud spots.

All of the above means the jackets are not tweed. (But it almost sounds like the korderoj above?)
The Donegal tweed (from Magee  - bought in Donegal Town) I have supports that. Except it is woven of singles. There are about 7 ends/cm in the warp, and 5 or 5,5 picks per cm. It shows some signs of tracking.

But... then, there is the Harris tweed (bought from a weaver, maybe in Harris, maybe in Lewis)

This looks a lot more like my older jacket - worsted, patterned... but woven with singles, with 12-13 ends and 19 picks per cm. The number of colours, and their sequence, is less complex than the Elgin, er, tweed.

The more you know, the more you know what you don't know - as usual... :-)